Beyond The Wall – Season 2 – Episode 4

Reminder… this show is NOT safe for work… just like Game of Thrones.

Episode 4 – Garden of Bones

P.G. returns from the dead to moderate this week’s panel discussion with Chooch, Vivid Muse, Christiana and Nutty.

Note: Discussion of P.G.’s S&M tendencies was for entertainment purposes only. Do not try this at home.

Hosts:
P.G. Holyfield (author of Murder at Avedon Hill and SFM Founder
Nuchtchas (Host of Nutty Bites Podcast)
Chooch (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host, and bassist of Ditched By Kate)
Vivid Muse (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host), Girls’ Rules Podcast Host)
Christiana Ellis (too many podcasts to list here ;-) but you can check out all things Christiana at her site.

Contact Us:

Email: btw at specficmedia.com
Phone: 6199-BTW-GoT (619-928-9468)
Comments: On the site

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27 Comments

  1. patman says:

    Great job getting the podcast out this early, PG! I can't wait to listen to it!

    • pgholyfield says:

      Thanks, Pat. Would have been out at around 10 last night but audio software crashed three times during export. Those that say re: apple products \”they just work\” should have been here last night so I could slap them. And not in a Ros slapping sort of way.

      • Nuchtchas says:

        I hate that line, they just work, it's totally bogus because all programs crash.

        Still, awesome getting the podcast out PG, thanks again for being our producer and editor

      • Max Tesla says:

        Apple got hit by a virus that infected over 650,000 computers, the virus was/ is called flashback, maybe you have it, there is a fix also
        http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Flashfake-Flashb

        At the end of the text on the page "To remove the trojan, consumers can use Dr.Web for Mac OS X Light available free of charge. "

  2. patman says:

    Finished listening, and I'm quite surprised that I've won two contests in a row.

    I hereby crown myself King Patman of House Trivial, until I am unseated! Which will never happen! Never!

    But enough about me and my excessiveness.

    Great podcast this time, I don't want to sound like you guys don't always shine, but this podcast (to me at least) just sounded top notch. Everyone seemed focused and on their game.

    Chooch probably has been feeling under the spotlight with everyone inquiring into his reaction on this scene or that scene, and I know exactly how the rest of the team feels. I find myself desperate to hear the reactions of people who haven't read the books but are watching the show.

    I'll have to watch the episode again to see if what PG saw in regards to the direwolf attack and the cut to rob.

    I'm also curious how Arya's story is going to unfold.

    Calling Hot Pie 'Pot Pie' is hilarious. I hope PG continues with that.

    I'm intrigued by people's recollections about the book having Tyrion's reactions to what might have been the unseen encounter between King Joffrey and some ladies of the evening. I'll have to track that down.

    I smiled at the comment of Hooray for Tywin showing up, I had a similar reaction.

  3. Max Tesla says:

    Hello

    Great podcast as always, you guys share my views on many things so I only have a few things to add.

    One thing you should know; I usually just write about things I did not like, so assume I liked everything I did not specifically mention :)

    This episode was probably the best so far of season 2

    The thing I did not like was when Danny threatened the guy from the 13, I mean HELLOOOOO stupid girl, you just said if you do not help us we will starve and die, and then the guy points that out. That was really really really dumb of her.

    NOW the guy who got threatened from the 13 then breaks the number 1 Game of Thrones rule which is; As soon as anyone threatens you, you MUST kill them, and if you can take their stuff, otherwise if you do not kill them it WILL bite you in the ass.

    And now some general criticism, I want more than 10 shows per season I want 100, YEAH! :)

    3 per week and maybe some time off during some special days or holidays and a few strategic weeks per year. You could mathematically if you had 100 episodes run almost 2 per week all year but 3 is more of what I want, and I can handle a few weeks off.

    AND NOW THE BIG THING!

    What really bothers me is the size of both Sam and the obese kid who travels with Arya. There is no way that with medieval food that they would be able to gain such weight, let alone and more importantly the kind of food served at the nights watch and could be available on the road for the kid. Add to that the daily movement which is walking for at least several hours per day every day, possibly 6-12 hours walking. There is no way they could be so big, that weight would have been gone.

    Natural food like what would be available to the kid and Sam would not build up such a huge amount of fat, let alone the meager rations both the kid and Sam would receive

    Their obesity really bothers me because the more you think about it the less plausible it is to conceive that with meager rations and daily hard work / walking long distances that they would be so heavy.

    • Nuchtchas says:

      I like that complaint, only ten episodes isn't nearly enough for my tastes either.

      As for the obesity it doesn't bother me because weight isn't just calories in and calories out. Some people are predisposed to being heavy and we know from paintings that there were many a heavy person in medieval times. I think for Sam and Hot Pie they ate a lot of sweets in their previous life and lived non active lives. Now marching to the wall and marching beyond the wall will give them some exercise but the weight isn't going to drop all the way right away. Also, when people have less money the food they eat isn't the best, and lacking food to eat your body holds on to as much fat as you can. So it's not a nit pick that I have much issue with. What's more shocking is that more of the nobels aren't plump.

      • Max Tesla says:

        You are applying modern day terms to a medieval environment

        You are 100% wrong

        There is no way that with medieval food and more importantly meager small rations you can put on weight

        BAD food in medieval times will not be like bad food today, there are no burgers, no french fries, no pizzas, in medieval times you most likely have some apples, bread and maybe if your lucky some meat, maybe.

        So if you are poor it is almost impossible to put on weight in medieval times, only the rich can

        There are no processed fats and no storage chemicals

        Do not apply modern day foods to medieval foods

        Maybe Sam maybe could maybe have achieved the weight as a noble but after a year at the wall with those meager rations there is no way he can keep it plus all the movement

        Also less food makes you hold on to fat, no it doesn’t, less food makes you lose weight again you are applying a modern day half myth, half fact on medieval times

        I have never disagreed with you on anything so much as on this specific thing :)

        BUT you are right about the nobles they on the other hand should be more plump.

  4. pgholyfield says:

    First of all, Sam was the son of a nobleman. He was a non-exercising kid who only wanted to read books and spend time with his mother, since his father hated him. He was fat.

    Second of all, Hot Pie was the son of a baker. His mom baked pies and he got his nickname because he would yell "Hot Pie!" He ate a lot of pie, and he was fat.

    Breads, pastries, pies, no exercise… they were overweight. Sorry dude, that's just how it is in this world. But I would see your point, if there were a lot more characters like this. :)

    • Max Tesla says:

      Yes they could have gotten the weight BEFORE, but now the lifestyles they have now, with constant movement and meager medieval rations, then no fracking way could they ever keep the weight.

      Also I re read my old post it might seem rude or harsh, do not interpret it as such :)

      • pgholyfield says:

        Try to not say things like "You are 100% wrong," and you won't come across as harsh. ;-)

        Half of your premise was that with medieval food and rations, they could not get fat. I disagreed with that part of your statement, for reasons already stated. I do agree that their current situations would eventually lead to them losing weight. Maybe we'll get there in the show, but I doubt it. It's not like they march the actors for three weeks and then shoot the next episode. ;-)

  5. Nuchtchas says:

    PG stated most of my response, how being the son of a baker hot pie would eat mostly sweets and wouldn't go much farther from his cart.

    Also, I don't think it has been a year yet, so while yes I would expect Sam and Hot Pie to lose some, I don't see it happening yet.

    Also, even if they should lose weight, I doubt they will, look at Hurley on Lost, he spent forever on that island and never lost at all right? It's TV, vampires who shouldn't age will and heavy people who should lose probably won't.

    And even in medieval times people were fat just because they came from a family of fat people. It happens, much like two short people will have short kids. Though I do think this is a lot of over thinking :)

    Also, someone remind me to bring up how much the Baratheon Stag looks like a Moose head, especially on the banners and the ship prow. I rewatched Garden of bones and kept thinking of Bulwinkle.

    • Max Tesla says:

      Yes it is a tv show, and on this tv show there are 2 things that bother me –> few episodes and Sam and Aryas fat friend.

      Look at photos at people before the 1970s in the US, very few were fat and that is in an industrialized country

      Then look at people during the 1800s even less were over weight now imagine medieval time

      It would be extremely hard to build up fat during medieval times and IF you did then once you come into a situation as the wall with meager rations and long marches plus sword training there is no way to keep the fat

      This is my opinion :)

      Also way more people should be much thinner and malnourished

    • Chooch says:

      I need to read through all comments before commenting myself.. Nutty beat me to the Hurley reference :)

  6. Patman says:

    Hey Nutty, bring up how much the Baratheon Stag looks like a Moose head… (there, you've been reminded!)

    Max, I understand your observations on Hot Pie and Sam's weight, and I don't think anyone is saying that they are gaining weight now. But the show is probably not going to try to thin them up, even if it would make sense. Sam and Hot Pie, in the books, happen to be fat. When the producers cast people for the show, that's how they went. Their weight provides a kind of visual shorthand of character traits to modern viewers, even if it is anachronistic.

    It's reasonable to point out when something breaks immersion with you, their weight issue is not something that does that for me. Just like I don't sweat it when I see lots of nice shiny white teeth.

    There are some things that bug me more, like the introduction of the "Volantene" field medic (I think the name she gave was 'Talisa') tending to the Lannister wounded after the battle. I think that the post-battlefield area would be incredibly dangerous for any young attractive woman.

    While I'm on the topic, I don't think Robb and his men can be blamed for the Lannister soldier's gangrenous foot, unless the Northmen are using magic biological weaponry. His injury would have needed some time to fester, so I'd blame the Lannisters for conscripting him and force-marching him with inadequate footwear, not the northmen and riverlandmen for retaliating for invading the Tully Riverlands.

    And while I'm on the topic, I felt that the examination of the rightness of Robb's war effort, although making for some interesting discussions among the viewers, was a bit too contemporary and anachronisitic.

    Yes, it sucks to be footless Lannister spearmen, but it certainly sucked to be part of Ned Stark's household staff working in King's Landiing, and butchered. Lord Tywin is reaping what he sowed by invading the Riverlands, and although Tyrion's arrest by Lady Catelyn could be pointed to as the reason for hostilities, the asymmetric response by Casterly Rock escalated the conflict to this bloody level.

    Robb has no United Nations to bring his case, the crown is certainly not impartial, and his reaction in raising an army and heading south to relieve the siege on his uncle's lands is certainly not the act of an aggressor. His current campaigns within Lannister lands seems to be executed with more restraint (despite the urging of Bolton) than he would expect in return.

    Okay, maybe I'm biased for the Starks. But Florence Nightingale was irritating me.

    • Max Tesla says:

      Yes on teeth and field medic, but those things do not bother me :)

      And I would also expect more looting after the battle of the dead corpses, lots of good gear on the ground why leave it but that doesn’t bother me either ;)

      And the Game of thrones world is almost all about the nobles, for the rest of the population you are nothing more than a pawn in the nobles games, and all that matters is on what side of a line on a map you were born.

      And in the real world we are now in 2012 and that still holds mostly true, on what side of what line you were born.

  7. patman says:

    I meant to mention before, that there are things about the show that might bother me, in the sense that I feel it might not necessarily happen that way, or I might want to argue with a character on the show (like with Talissa from Volantis), but I'm happy to hand wave away what I might think is anachronistic in service of the show.

    I get why they have Robb meet her in this fashion, and why she raises up the points that she does. It's something I can roll with.

    I am really looking forward to the next podcast. But no pressure… get it recorded and out when the schedule permits. I am very happy that you all are willing to put in the time and effort for the podcast, and for such a reasonable price to the listening audience!

    • Max Tesla says:

      Yes the price is real good :)

      And I as well love 99% of Game of thrones dont get me wrong here, just a few things that bothers me :)

      • Vivid Muse says:

        I feel the same way. I grieve the elements that were crucial in my mind, but not represented as well, or at all, in some cases.

        Thanks for all the feedback!

  8. Vivid Muse says:

    Lookit, we've already all had to compromise how we pictured different characters: Dany, with neither silver hair nor violet eyes (these were her greatest physical descriptors, in my memory); Syrio with hair; the aging of the young female characters; Robert Baratheon not being fat as I imagined him; etc.,. In extras on the DVD set, we were told that they sacrificed some visual elements at the expense of the best possible performances by the best possible actors. I think they have done a stellar job, given the natural limitations of the media.

    Thanks for the debate, good stuff! I believe that going through different movies with a similar age as our own, that it likely falls in Medieval times, but it really is different isn't? Dragons, shadow babies, overcoming poison via religion/black magic; Roz thinking her pimp cared if she was sad- all examples of where things don't touch the reality of our own world.

    Besides, there have been more than a few examples of obesity amongst the poor in Ye Olde Tymes.. Friar Tuck comes to mind, first off.

    Spoiler Alert:
    Now, who knew Tonks/Osha was hiding such a cute body under all them rags?

    • Max Tesla says:

      Peoples personalities are the same, so placing different personalities in different times gives an interesting story :)

      And about the fatness, my point was that with the amount of energy those 2 spend by walking and training and with the low amount of rations they would get, it would be impossible to stay heavy.

    • patman says:

      > Spoiler Alert:
      > Now, who knew Tonks/Osha was hiding such a cute body under all them rags?

      Osha is quite fetching. But she's a stabber! But… so attractive. But scary!

      :-)

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