Beyond The Wall

Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep. 5 Discussion

Since we don’t do our Hangout/YouTube show until Wednesday, feel free to use this post to discuss Season 3, Episode 5, “Kissed by Fire.”

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27 replies on “Game of Thrones Season 3 Ep. 5 Discussion”

Is Nutty upset about the elimination of both Willas AND Garlan Tyrell? She seemed a bit perturbed that Willas wasn't mentioned as a potential match for Sansa. Now, as Ser Loras was called the heir to Highgarden, it seems that neither of his older brothers exist in the TV universe.

I'll live, I always wanted to meet Willas, but I have to deal. I figured when we lost him we'd lose Garlan too. I will say that Loras isn't so bright in this episode, who wouldn't have guessed what was happing there?

Yeah, since they skipped the whole dressing up Garlan Tyrell in Renly's armor to scare Stannis's troops at the Battle of Blackwater thing, there really wasn't much of a reason to have Garlan or Willas.

Just as a small first comment,.. Littlefinger excelled at his "being creepy old man interested in much younger girls" performance. Even way more then Jorah does in regards of Danny. Pfui ^^;

Oh and Brienne's tall. Like literally.

Jaime's speech was just fantastic, maybe now TV watchers will understand why he's my favourite character in the books.

I've been really impressed with how good the last few episodes have been, each one leaves me more excited for what's to come. They really stepped up their game from last season.


I'm reasonably happy with Ser Loras being an amalgamation of Garlan and Willas, just like Bronn played the role of Ser Jacelyn Bywater as well and Thoros == Thoros + Lemoncloak + Tom o' Sevens.

I think I miss the Kettleblacks more than I miss any extra Tyrells.

Cool episode overall. I assume some will say that the episode was too talky, but I think we need talky times to catch our breath on things. Since we don't get the ability to read POV characters minds, we need to have the time taken to say things. It's why they like to pair people up for conversations, like Shae and Sansa, or Varys and everyone in Kings Landing.

Boy, Lady Olenna was a hag to my boy Tyrion. Calling him a browbeaten bookkeeper. 🙁

I know the team complained about the Talisa with the Lannister boys scene a few episodes, but it was totally paid off last night.

Hm, I feel like the text limits like growing smaller @.@

The Brienne and Jaime scenes continue to be awesome. As mentioned before I got quite surprised by her height. I haven't had the impression that she is like tiny but somehow I also didn't notice that she's as tall. Which like jumped my face when she raised from kneeling and appeared like almost two heads taller then Lord Bolton. Same for the bathing scene when she stood up. Uh, hum, not sure how to put without being inapprotiated, but she does look totally hot, when washed & naked. ^^;;;
Regarding storylines I did wonder about the washing comment from Jaime, when he was like "Don't peel your skin off". It made me wonder if his intervention about Tarth was maybe a bit late. Though maybe she just likes to be clean.
I did like their whole interaction, even when she did gave a very insecure impression.
It's been quite an interessting conversation they had or better to say story that Jaime told. It does show his action in a way less vile and dishonorable manner and after considering it I can see that he has no one else to tell it to. His father may consider it treason – at least the part regarding turncoat – and the rest of the world won't believe it.
Also, might be just my impression as she's my favorite char so far, but the look she gave him, with like this totally blue, big eyes,… was fascinating, somewhat cute. A bit like the puss in boots in Shrek XD
A bit sad that she called for help for the Kingsslayer, but understandable. Habits may change but not that fast.
Regarding Jaime, to give him also some credit, it's been fascinating how he's been played by Bolton, as well as his decision to feel the pain. On a site note, I got the impression that they'll keep the camera way longer on naked women as on naked men. A bit strange, it's not like Jaime or John are bad looking pals ^^;

Brienne has an amazing body. In the books the way Jamie describes it in the scene is not so appealing, but this is the perspective of a man who has only been with Cercei.

I'm so glad they brought the tale of the mad king into the series, I feel like the back story is important.

Well, at the risk of sounding like an ass, but the camera work intentionally cropped out the bits that we men would use to judge her hotness. In a show that hasn't shied away from titillating the audience, it can be assumed that the director is trying to show Brienne the way Jamie describes / thinks of her in the book. That is to say that Brienne is handsome, but not attractive.

I can see why Jamie wouldn't see her as attractive, specially given the situation that she just stood up after feeling seriously insulted. I think he did feel kind of threatened as he did ask for excuse for being to harsh without adding any snark comments like "Close the eyes and pretend it's Renly".

Maybe they also tried to visualize it a bit as Brienne didn't got the I'd call it "Boobs shot" where the camera just like swirls around and showing everything .. like when Ygritte undressed. They really seemed to avoid showing her breasts.

I agree on the back story and I do think they chose a very good situation to have it explained. (I don't know when it's mentioned in the books, don't remember it from the first two)

I had the same thought (about B's scrubbing). Even if not related to the rape, she was certainly trying to wash something off of her. Possibly the dishonorable nature of those she's found herself surrounded with? I didn't think it possible, but I love her more onscreen than in the books.

Hum, the John plot was nice, but one of the weaker parts I think. With the bird-warg-spy they wouldn't have needed his count and Bird-Guy was probably right about the numbers? Which are like a bit confusing. Like about a thousand at Castle Black when most of them should be out on Mormonts Trail, which seemed more like maybe one or two hundered. I am a bit wondering if it's better for him to produce Widlings instead of Basterds ^^;
Oh and he does know something. Which seemed like totally unexpected? It's like sexuality developing,.. wonder how/if it will progress @_@;

While John and Ygritte as well as Jaime and Brienne went bathing Robb seems to enjoy pirate style shirts. Apart from that I think he made a lot of very bad decisions. He could have just have held Karstark captive, move the court to the end of war and behead him after the war is done (or if all his troops are dead). Like this it was almost as clever as Joeffreys idea to behead Ned.

I need to remember to say this on the cast, but when the subject of how many men were at castle black my husband had a great insight. All of the people who quote numbers just suck at math. Never do you hear Maesters, the ones trained in mathematics, talk about troop numbers. Just people who were in the thick of battle. There were 3 thousand men says the soldier, but in reality it was closer to 50. Seems plausible to me 🙂

The Lord's Kiss (what John knows) was a big thing in the books, and I know they kept it for the readers. It's not very plot specific, but there is a lot of sex in these books and some things we readers really hold onto.

The Baths are great.

Had they been in the north, I think Robb might have given Karstark the choice of joining the black, but since they were in the south the only way he could see to prevent people from betraying him again was a firm hand. Was it the right choice? Are any of the choices right?

Wasn't Ned supposed to be given the option of taking the black for his treason if Joffrey kept up his end of the bargain? It could've worked, but that wouldn't fit the direction that Robb's story has to go.

Hum, sometimes am wondering whether choices are good or bad, but in this case am pretty sure it's been bad. ^^;
They stated before that Robbs very much outnumbered by iirc 1:2 and now he's lost half his army. With some replacement plan that involves asking someone for people he did betray himself before.
I am not sure if having Karstark take the black would have changed the mind of the rest of the Karstark clan, I guess it would have been possible to have him take it and if required lock him up till they can move him up there.

I figured the bit about questioning Jon was more about testing his loyalty by asking things they already knew the answer to. Though they seemed surprised about the high Castle Black number.

His next plan "Let's take Casterly Rock" seems also overly optimistic. He even recognized that he broke his promise to Late-Lord-Frey for a common stranger. But he still picks up the piece and moves it over as he's sure to win Frey over for his cause that seems rather lost oO;
Maybe he'll introduce the concept of like offical Polygamie to Frey?

I got mixed feelings about the Brotherhood. Thumbs up for Gendry and the Hound. Thumbs down for Beric-Can't-be-killed. It got close to the off feeling that the Shadow Baby caused. I really dislike the "Awww the God of like religion is so magic" stuff. Makes me wonder why those followers didn't come over sooner to get hold of Westeros. Also it surprised me a bit that Arya went full out judgemental bout Mycah towards the Hound. A bit late, eh?

Though surprisingly I liked the scenes at Dragonstone. Stannis Wife finally appears and seems to be even further to the batshit crazy department as Cats sister. I did like the portayal of his daughter and she did a nice song.
I think Stannis is kind of a dick for dropping the Onion knight like this, at least it doesn't seem like he's planning to set him on fire.
(It does invoke some parallels to the mad king?)
I personally figured the The Onion knight could read, but tried to protect the girl.

Back to Kings Landing, Granny remains to be frank & cool, Loras easily attracted, the gaydar of Sansa off and Tywin owns two of his children.
It's really been a nice seen how first Cersei gloats about and then realized that things are going down for her as well. Though I really wondered what would happen if Cersei and Tyron pulled through with their resistance.

About Sansa, giving Littlefinger creepiness I think she had good reason to reconsider his offer even if there wasn't Loras at the horizon. XD

The scene about Dany and Grey Worm (which is kind of a cool name, imo) and Jorah and Selmy was okay. Bit dull maybe, but okay.

Ah and as the question came up last cast, I am female ^^;;;

We learned last season the Onion Knight couldn't read. I love where this is going, they are combine two characters for Stanis's daughter and I hope we see more of her, she's great.

I thought you might be female, but I never assume, don't want to put my foot in my mouth.

thanks for the comments, I love these discussions

It seems that show watchers are not warming up to Jaimie as quickly as I would have thought, even given what we learned in this episode. As a book reader, Jaimie is my favorite character. Throwing Bran out the window was terrible enough, why did the show runners invent a scene with Jaimie killing his cousin in cold blood? It makes Jaimie’s road to redemption harder for show watchers to swallow.

that's not what I've been seeing, I've been seeing a lot of show watchers warm up to Jamie quite a bit. I do think the show is forgetting the whole "Kin Slaying is the worst sin there is" thing from the books, which makes me wonder why they'd do that. I'm not sure if this is one of those things as a book reader I'm holding on to but on screen it doesn't matter?

thanks for the comments though, we'll have to discuss Jamie's likability this week

You should check out Larry's review for the latest episode. His perspective on the Jaimie arc is interesting. I have a lot of show-watcher friends that agree with him.

Does it feel like nobody in King's Landing knows what they are doing? They're weaving machinations around Sansa while not realizing that nobody in the North will give a flying #@$! who she marries. If half the army walked out on Robb, why would any of them rally around the douche who lays Sansa? It looks like everyone is trying to cockblock everyone else, but isn't that what "accidents" are for?

re: Podrotica and the Lord's Kiss. I thought we saw that in that Season 1 lesbian info dump scene about Littlefinger's back story. It would really surprise me if a kid showed a whore something new.

Lines of succession are a huge part of the Game and every player matters. Otherwise, the loathsome Baratheon Bastard Slaughter wouldn't have been necessary. Playing the long game has been paying off for Tywin, so he certainly has no reason to stop plotting. He just told his kids are about to have to do more for the Lannister legacy, the poor bastards. Gendry understood it, as he demonstrated when he told Arya they couldn't be family because he's lowborn and she's not.

I feel more sorry for Sansa the longer people build her hopes. How would she handle the news of her betrothal to Tyrion, after the possibility of loving Loras publicly entered her mind?

Thanks for all the great comments! You all are making this season a real blast!

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