Beyond The Wall – Season 2 – Ep. 2

Episode 2 is only half as long as episode 1, and I still only got it done today. Oh well, I did my best. :)

Reminder… this show is NOT safe for work… just like Game of Thrones.

Episode 2 – The Night Lands

P.G. Holyfield moderates this week’s panel discussion with Chooch,Vivid Muse (both “in studio”), Christiana and Nutty.

Hosts:
P.G. Holyfield (author of Murder at Avedon Hill and SFM Founder
Nuchtchas (Host of Nutty Bites Podcast)
Chooch (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host, and bassist of Ditched By Kate)
Vivid Muse (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host), Girls’ Rules Podcast Host)

Contact Us:

Email: btw at specficmedia.com
Phone: 6199-BTW-GoT (619-928-9468)
Comments: On the site

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26 Comments

  1. Max Tesla says:

    Hey hey I am finally caught up!

    So quick comments about earlier episodes

    In episode 1 season 2 Do you think Ros boobs looked bigger? Because I did, maybe the actress got some implants or maybe it was the specific dress.

    After season 1 episode 10 you guys talked about what would you rather lose your fingers or your tongue.

    And of course it must be ones tongue, because how will one make money without fingers, how will one put food in ones mouth, how will one pick up anything or even get dressed.

    You can eat with no tongue, swallowing is harder put possible, but with no fingers you cant even get the food into your mouth, let alone make money to buy food, or even plant and harvest your own food.

    In a medieval society the loss of ones fingers is almost the same as death, it is not like you can get some middle management job and boss other people around.

    I haven't read any of the books.

    NOW

    To the episode

    When I saw Theon ridding with the girl first I was certain it was his sister, I did not know if he had a sister before that but once I saw them on the horse I was thinking ok got to be his sister because this is the game of thrones world with incest at every corner. But then when he reached the castle and was talking with his father I was thinking nahh it wasn’t his sister, but then she walks in and indeed it was his sister!

    And unlike you guys I didn't like this episode Season 2 episode 2 or episode 1 of season 2 that much.

    The first time I saw them I thought they were ok but the second time after watching them again after re watching the whole of season 1 I was thinking wow they are really worse than Season 1.

    But who knows maybe the rest of Season 2 will be excellent.

    And on a side note why didn't Yoren kill those 2 guards, now those 2 are just gonna go back for more reinforcements

    But if Yoren had killed them well then the Night Watch would have netted 2 horses, plus some weapons and armor. Yoren had disarmed on guard and held a knife to his family area just a quick stab one guys goes down then it is a fight with the last guy. And who would have known, it would have taken some time before someone even thought of the guards as missing and even if they did, they might think the guards were ambushed by raiders or highway men. It is not like they have radios or some organized filling system.

    • patman says:

      Max,

      Yoren didn't kill the city guards probably because he's not a murderer, or a brigand. Well, he might have been one in the past, but now he's a member of the Night's Watch. And I think killing guardsmen would violate some rule or other, and he'd get his head chopped off by even his authorities.

      It's not like the guys in the cage would keep quiet about it if it could be used to their advantage.

      • Max Tesla says:

        I see your point, but if the guys come back with reinforcements then I stand by my opinion. And Yoren could always tell the night watch commander that it was done in self defense like it kinda would have been, and the night watch commander would have believed Yoren of that I am certain. In the Game of thrones world it seems that given any hostile situation the best option is to kill everyone and take their stuff :)

        • pgholyfield says:

          He may have thought that if he killed them, more would come, and if the King's Guard took his advice (basically lie and say they didn't find anyone) he would have a better chance of getting away.

          • Max Tesla says:

            Perhaps Yoren did think that, but I am still saying

            That if he had killed the guards then

            1, The guards commander/leader/boss probably didn't expect the guards to report for quite some time possibly weeks

            2, The guards commander/leader/boss would have no idea exactly what happened to the guards and where and even IF they were dead

            3, The guards commander might not even bother over 2 missing guards or even notice.

            4, Who would have known that it was Yoren? If the guards are dead who would report it back?

            5 This is medieval times it is not like that they have CSI teams running around with DNA sampling, So once someone is dead it is very hard to know who did it and even IF the bodies were found and that is a big IF, the bodies would have decomposed by the time anyone who could ID the bodies was found.

            6 I am sticking what with I wrote; Yoren should have killed the guards and taken their stuff, and he would most likely been able to do it without any consequences since they did pull a sword on him, threaten him and wanted to take someone away. The night Watch Commander would have believed any story Yoren would have said, and even the truth would have done.

            By the way I just saw episode 3, check it out :)

          • pgholyfield says:

            I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your logic about what might have been 'best' for Yoren to do. I was only saying what might have been the reason he didn't attack the guards. The Night's Watch doesn't involve themselves in the politics of the realm, and he was trying to stand by that in his actions.

            Obviously we all knew what was coming in Ep. 3, and it would have in the least gained them time if they had killed the two members of the King's Guard. But he didn't, and as a result… what happened, happened. :)

          • Max Tesla says:

            I was thinking maybe Yoren was just being a nice guy and thought he could frighten the guards away without any bloodshed, sparing the guards who were just doing their job

            But in The Game of Thrones world people who are nice usually gets lots of trouble

            The Game of Thrones world is a very cruel world

          • Vivid Muse says:

            In my opinion, Yoren considered all that you mentioned, and judged it as not the action to take. I believe it is because of the code of ethics that PG mentions, but also to a simpler reason, involving his tactical abilities: If they start killing off the King's representatives, they won't likely be getting any of the provisions, men or anything else they have repeatedly asked the King for, to protect all from what lies beyond The Wall.

            If you take into account the various examples already given in the series, then killing the guards is the way to go. But men like Yoren and Ned Stark take what they deem to be the ethical road, rather than the easy/less complicated one. It's way I lurrrrrrve them so!

          • MaxTesla says:

            Vivid Muse you wrote "If they start killing off the King's representatives, they won't likely be getting any of the provisions, men or anything else they have repeatedly asked the King for, to protect all from what lies beyond The Wall. "

            To that I say; who would know? How would the kings guards find out? As I wrote above it would be very hard to prove or even know what happened.

            And yes I think Yoren might have thought he could frighten them off and this was the more ethical road

          • Vivid Muse says:

            There of those in the world that, even if it is unlikely to EVER be discovered, will never do anything that would risk harm to innocents. Period. Who would have known is really secondary, IMHO. Yoren would know.

  2. patman says:

    Great recap of episode 2.

    Quick comments – I thought it was pretty clear that the humanoid creature getting Craster's son was an Other, the figure is mostly just a silhouette but we see bright blue eyes, just like the eyes of the creature that beheaded the older ranger in season 1 episode 1 (aka the prologue…)

    There also that glacial ice-cracking sound in the scene, those sounds were prominent in the episode 1 premiere.

    Yes, Podrick Payne is my hero! I'm a big fan of all the secondary characters. I was a big Jory Cassel fan. Poor Jory.

    I'll back up the assessment that Gilly was well cast. I also felt it was a powerful moment when she called Sam brave.

    Thanks for your hard work in getting the podcast out before episode three airs. I'll see if I can enter the survey.

  3. pgholyfield says:

    yeah, I re-watched last night and saw the blue for a split second… ;-)

  4. Lostinacrowd says:

    I didnt notice the blue really, im going to rewatch the epiosde with episode 3 now, I listen to 3 or 4 and this is my favourite GOT podcast, you get stuff right and catch everything, some of the others dont! Good work and keep it up. I only just notcied the new episode was here so I will listen tonight.

    I thought someone took the sword from the other guard too but that may have just been me, i dont think it was very clear..

    Shout out to Christiana too, I enjoy her podcasts, I also had no major issue with Mass Effect 3 :)

  5. pgholyfield says:

    Thanks for the nice comments, "Lost." I loved Mass Effect 3 as well. :) – P.G.

  6. Nuchtchas says:

    I think the big thing about Yorren and while he seems raw he is operating by rules that make sense to him. The world has flipped upside down in the realm and the men of the Knight's watch take no sides, no one else seems to be respecting those rules but he is sticking by them. If he were to kill the guards, he would have been taking a side. His job is to get the boys to the wall safe and sound, not to start a skirmish with the city watch. He has every expectation that when they returned to their superiors and tell that Gendry is with the knight's watch that no one will be sent back. Men of the knight's watch take no lands, wife or titles, gendry would have no claim to anything, also, the wall is a punishment for the greatest of crimes (remember Ned was supposed to be sent there?) so anything Gendry could have done would be paid off.

    Also, the ending to Mass Effect 3 not only was great but made sense, I knew in ME2 this is how it would end, I think those upset over it missed ME's foreshadowing ballpien(sp) hammer

    • Max Tesla says:

      Defending one self or ones own wouldn't be taking a side.

      If he were to kill the guards he would be protecting him self and his wards.

      The guards came after his wards, the guards threatened him.

      And there would be no skirmish if he had killed the guards.
      That would have been that and most likely no one outside the people right there and then would have known about it.

      • Nuchtchas says:

        I think what is so fun about this series is how it is a different experience for different people. I'm a total nerd about these books and have obsessed over every stupid detail so some things may bother me that are totally unimportant and other things that would bother other people don't bring up my ire because I have more context. It's kind of neat we all see it differently don't you think?

  7. Aaron says:

    Dude, Holyfield can you try to cut down on the ummms and ahhhs a bit. You convey no excitement (are you bored or something) and sounded rather unprepared. While the podcast had a lot of good content, and 3 of the 4 people on it sounded like they wanted to doing it, you make this unlistenable.

    Instead of reading your panels notes for them breaking up the thoughts with all your ummm and ahhhs letting them only respond with a "Yup" let them run through their own notes.

    Seriously, spend an hour listening to this podcast and count your ummm and ahhhs compared to the other people on the podcast. Don't speak if you don't know what you're going to say.

    • Vivid Muse says:

      Aaron, while I appreciate that you have taken the time to listen and post a comment, I have to disagree with your very harsh criticism. Additionally, I think any noticeable ummms and ahhhs simply relay that he is being thoughtful before speaking what is on his mind.

      Any time any of us twist up our words, stutter, ummm or anything like that serve as a reminder that we are five beautifully flawed humans having a real conversation in 5 different rooms around the North East part of the country. Trust me when I say it is a complicated and frequently frustrating endeavor for which we ask no compensation. In fact, I happily agreed to another season because of all the fun I had in the first season with these amazing people. (Yes, I'm biased. Blissfully biased.)

      Now, as someone that also struggles with a speech thing I choose not to go in to here, I am extremely sensitive on this issue. We are human. Perfectly coiffed and pasteurized entertainment reporters with every word scripted and every breath planned or edited out are out there by the carload, and I don't judge you if that is your preference.

      I personally prefer to hear conversations of real people, and those are my favorite to participate in. We strive for audio quality excellence, but currently have issues we are working out with multiple new dynamics in play.

      Further, I for one hold tremendous appreciation that PG has taken on all the production work, in spite of his own hefty responsibilities. (Again, biased because he's doing all the heavy lifting this season.) He works his ass off to get the episodes posted as quickly as possible after multiple listens. Trust me when I say he knows each episode more intimately then most (or all) of our cast.

      If he were to take the time to isolate and remove each and every non-homogenized noise, the episodes wouldn't get posted until Season 3, and that does not interest me (I can only speak for myself.).

      And again, PG never gets our individual show notes in advance. He has no clue, Universe protect him, what anyone will say before it tumbles out of their mouths. It's unscripted. It's how we roll.

      Hopefully you give us a fair shake. PG is working diligently on releasing the episode we recorded Monday night for release as quickly as possible. And I think my co-hosts would agree that PG is not unlistenable. If I personally thought he was, I certainly wouldn't do the podcast with him. I wouldn't be able to stand the conversation.

      That said, to each their own and I wish you well whether you continue to listen or not. Hopefully in the future, as you wish PG would take out ummm's and ahhhh's, you will reread your comment before posting, to possibly remove things that could be considered as personally insulting against content creators putting things out there for free. Unintentional or not, it definitely goes tpo far, IMNSHO.

      Respectfully submitted.

  8. pgholyfield says:

    Umm… yeah.

    I certainly cannot argue about the ums and ahs. I will do my best to cut back on that, but there is a speech thing I have that I won't go into, that results in that. Sorry it bothers you so much.

    I don't read the panelists notes for them. Christiana was not present for episode 2 and had sent me her notes, which I read when I could. I also include comments from "patman" if I can, as he has good insight.

    I can assure you that there will be less umms and ahhs in episode 3 (I was sick and could not be there). I hope you enjoy the show.

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