Beyond the Wall – Season 2 – Episode 5

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Episode 5 – The Ghost of Harrenhal

P.G. sounds like he’s half dead (sorry about all the head cold noises) as he moderates this week’s panel discussion with Chooch, Vivid Muse, Christiana and Nutty. And it’s a biggun… almost 2 hours of discussion. Enjoy!

Hosts:
P.G. Holyfield (author of Murder at Avedon Hill and SFM Founder
Nuchtchas (Host of Nutty Bites Podcast)
Chooch (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host, and bassist of Ditched By Kate)
Vivid Muse (Into the Blender Podcast Co-Host), Girls’ Rules Podcast Host)
Christiana Ellis (too many podcasts to list here ;-) but you can check out all things Christiana at her site.

Here is the link to the map we talked about during the episode.

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Email: btw at specficmedia dot com
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17 Comments

  1. patman says:

    A man will wait.

  2. Vivid Muse says:

    Thanks for the hard work, PG! Thank goodness we get all that HBO money, eh?

  3. patman says:

    I'm about 1/3rd of the way through, you guys are really examining the scenes. Bueno!

  4. Maester George says:

    Regarding your discussion about how Brienne felt towards Renly:

    I think she was romantically in love with him. It was an immature love, to be sure, much like Sansa loving Loras. ("Wanna have, like, ten thousand of his babies.")

    I think Brienne did actually have a chance with Renly. At least, a better chance than Margaery had!

    Keep up the great podcast.

  5. Patman says:

    I'm 2/3rds of the way done (the rest to be completed on the evening commute home.)

    I liked hearing the examination of should the previous episode have ended with Renly being stabbed, rather than with the end of the ritual with Melisandre and Davos in the cave. If I had a vote, it would have been with the birth. I think that Renly's death was such a pivot point in regards to Brienne personal reaction and the political fallout that I wanted to see it unfold in the same episode.

    I view Renly's death as a cliff hanger differently than Ned's death, Ned's death was so big and would have such an affect on the larger story that it could serve as an episode ender and get everyone worked up. Melisandre giving birth to a thing that kills Renly is cool, but it was cooler I think for people who had not read the books to just not know what the hell was going to happen next. My boss was convinced that something else was going to happen entirely, and the week anticipation had more of an affect on him when Renly died than if Renly had been snuffed out immediately post-delivery.

    Hey, I see that Max mentioned he didn't like the scene at Pyke. I assume he meant that he doesn't like the Ironborn in general, and not that the scene was poorly executed.

    There's not much to love about the Ironborn, if you aren't one of them, just like the Vikings were not much admired and loved by the Britons or the Irish. (I'm not busting on the Vikings per se, it's just that they were a raiding culture and there were good reasons that shaped their society. The environmental and economic pressures of the Iron Islands are similar, and it's reasonable to imagine their rough nature.

    I like the Iron Islanders as a concept, and I'm glad they are part of the narrative since they represent a marked difference culturally from the rest of Westeros, and those kind of differences really bring cool tensions to the story.

    Similarly with the Dothraki. I can appreciate the positive aspects of an individual but not agree with their societal norms. (Just like I can admire Tywin Lannister's practicality and intellect, but not agree with whom he has as associates (like the Mountain.))

    Max makes a good observation that the children act older than their literal age, but I don't think that's atypical for any story where children are forced to act independently to some degree.

    • Max Tesla says:

      About Pyke I did not like the whole thing that the guy was boasting about raping

      I do not care about their economic condition that does not give one the right to rape and when one boasts about it then the world would be better without them.

      It was the boasting that really got to me. He said it like it was something to be proud over.

      And when a whole culture is built around rape then that culture has to go.

      And that said, I want them all to die, the rapers in Pyke and Dothraki.

      About the Vikings, the myth about them is that they pillaged etc but in reality, like most other people, they were farmers, that does not mean they never ever did any raiding but the gigantic majority of the viking time was farming and fishing etc.

      • Vivid Muse says:

        Max, I stand by you on being disgusted by the acceptance of rape across the map. Kill 'em all! Slowly. ^_^

  6. Patman says:

    Hmmm, hopefully I am not coming across pro-rape, which was not my intent, or even pro-Ironborn. I wasn’t sure before if Max’s objection to the scene at the harbor was similar to the obesity issue, but I see where he is coming from now.

    Obviously we are not supposed to like the Ironborn of Theon’s crew, who certainly are not presented as anything other than scum.

    We will have to agree to disagree on the seafaring Viking’s reputation for pillage. I would never argue that the Scandinavian people did not hunt, farm, or trade as well.

    • Max Tesla says:

      I did not think for 1 second you were pro rape, I just wanted to clarify what my point was

      Which is, so we got some people living their lives and minding their own business, and here comes the Ironborn or Dothraki striding in to rape them and are proud in doing so. These 2 groups see it as something to be proud over and to the be boasted about. It is that whole mentality that offends me.

  7. patman says:

    By the way, Max, congratulations on the survey win for the episode!

    • Max Tesla says:

      Thanks, you won the last one I think, and this one that will be for episode 6 I missed to fill in!

      So there is a very small chance that I will win :P

  8. KevinPickles says:

    Hey great show guys, really enjoying the podcast. The small folk in Kings Landing are too fat. While the city is starving and seething in hatred Tyrion is sauntering about with no one except Bronn for protection. I want some starving people. I want some starving people. NOW!

  9. Maester George says:

    **Minor spoiler alert.**

    I'm surprised you didn't comment about the Jon/Halfhand scene differing from the book. In particular, that Jon and Sam did not find the dragonglass. Maybe they'll have Sam find it by himself.

    • Nuchtchas says:

      With many of the changes they have made I was hoping they would slot that in the future somewhere… but I have no idea where they are headed with these changes :)

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